Interview With Frank Kern by Bobbette Madonna Copyright 2003 After successfully securing a $540 refund for one of my clients from a company who sold her a program using a totally unethical payment system (that's another story) I contacted the originator of the program, Mr Frank Kern, who granted me an interview. The following is an important lesson when considering which program to get involved with and spending your hard earned money. Question - Do gurus team up on programs together to out do the last MLM program? Answer - The official answer? I don't know. The term "gurus" is so broad. It seems like some Internet Marketers specialize in servicing the MLM market. I know Brian Garvin does a good job of teaching MLM strategies that work. I'm not really sure I know what you mean by "out do the last program". ============= Question - Do gurus promise and guarantee that people will make hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get them to sign up and pay? Answer - No. In fact, I don't know of any professional marketers who actually promise that someone will make money. I know that a common promise is that they'll SHOW or TELL their customers HOW to make money. And the information provided by every course I've ever bought is good, legit, and extremely do-able. And I think I've bought them all. A common promise is one where an instructor will tell the customer that if they use the product/course/service/whatever that is being offered and they do not make any money then they can get a refund. For example, "If you don't make at least $xxx after you put this system to work, I'll cheerfully give you a 100% refund" Sounds fair to me. Maybe some people confuse this with "I hereby promise you will make money if you buy my stuff, even if you don't do anything". Of course that's just plain crazy. Anyone who tells you that is to be avoided. ======================= Question - After a few months the newest program hype fades - is that because gurus start planning the next money maker? Answer - I think this question is about MLM opportunities. My guess is this: The "fading hype" is a factor of the very nature of the MLM market. Many MLM'ers are "MLM Junkies". People who are always jumping from program to program...looking for the next "quick fix". Therefore, you'll see the newest program being promoted very heavily at first...only to be replaced with whatever else comes along. This question makes me picture a handful of "gurus" out there, sitting at a table and "pulling the strings" of internet commerce. Well, that's not reality. What usually happens is that an Internet Marketer will launch a promotion to his list, someone on his list will copy it and mail it to their list, someone on that list will copy it and mail it to their list...and so on. This happened to me recently. I sent a message to my in-house subscribers telling them about the great luck I was having with SFI. I explained that all I did was give away a free SFI marketing course and as a result, I was getting commission checks that were big enough to pay for my two new BMW's and my house. Well, next thing you know, there are a handful of other guys mailing the SAME letter to their list...but putting *their* names on it. Naturally, everyone's credibility was shot as a result. Here's the truth about 99.99% of the MLMs out there: If you join them, promote them in order to generate leads, and then follow up with those leads CONSISTENTLY over time, then you'll make money. If you develop a team of people and teach them to do the same, you'll get to the point where you make money without really doing a lot of work. What I think happens is this: Someone reads an ad and says" Wow, if I join this program I'll get rich and I won't have to do anything because I'll get spillover/a free downline/whatever". Then they join the program, do NOTHING, make no money, and blame it all on the program. This is like buying an exercise machine, never using it, and then saying that it's the exercise machine's fault that you're still overweight. ======================= Question - How can people be sure a program really belongs to the guru that is quoted on the web site and in the ads? Answer - You can't a lot of times. For example, there are 19,000 web sites out there with my name on them. I own THREE! But if you're interested in buying a product...let's say it's Instant Internet Empires...and you know that what the owner/creator's real website is, then just go there IF you're uncomfortable buying from someone else. Or write the owner of the web site and say, "Are you the REAL so and so?" Or just get the product, try it out, and get a refund if it doesn't live up to the promise. (This is what I do personally) ============================= Question - What should we look for on an MLM web site that guarantees truth in advertising? Answer - I'll need a specific example to be able to really answer the question. But let me give you my personal criteria for working with an MLM program: 1. It actually has to sell something of value...not just the opportunity. 2. I have to personally believe that the program is good. 3. The web site must have a system where people can join for free and then upgrade later if they want. 4. It must have a system that will automatically follow up with the people who join for free and convert them to paid members...so all I have to do is get free members (AKA: LEADS) and the system will follow up with them and give me credit when they upgrade. SFI does this. It's got to be one of the easiest things I've ever seen. ========================== Question - What is the best way to get a refund when you don't want to continue with an MLM program? Answer - Ask them for one. If they give you trouble, contact your credit card company. ========================== Question - What are the 4 top reasons NOT to join an MLM program? Answer - 1. YOU 2. YOU 3. YOU 4. YOU Here's what I mean by this: In my personal experience, it's rarely the MLM program that fails. It's the person. If you're not willing to get out there and WORK the system (yes, work!) then you shouldn't join any program at all. You MUST make an effort, promote the program, get leads, and follow up with them. And you must do this consistently. That's the magic formula. Most people could build a successful business if they just spent an hour or so a day working it. (And I mean working the business. I don't mean surfing the Internet to see what is a scam, I don't mean lurking in forums, and I don't mean going out and buying more courses or joining more programs) ============================= Question - Shouldn't some of the TOS (Terms of Service) be more prominent in guru's sales letter. (Buyer Beware) Answer - I think that a 100% refund policy is the way to go. Think about this: You buy a digital product on the internet. You don't like it. Just get a refund! Most people use Clickbank or a similar service..so refunds are issued automatically. You don't even have to really do anything. No shipping a product back, no going to the post office, no form to fill out....just send an email. Worst case scenario is that you make a 30 second phone call to your credit card company. And you still end up with the product you purchased and whatever bonuses that came with it. I think the best thing you can do is to ask yourself, "Am I really going to USE this product/information?" I'll give you an interesting statistic. A friend of mine is a HUGE "guru" as you guys like to say. I won't give you his name because I didn't get permission to discuss his business statistics publicly before I did this interview. Anyway, he sells an internet marketing course. When people buy it, they have to register it in order to be able to read it. Get this: Only 60% of the buyers even open the course! So almost half of them don't even READ it to begin with! But they're probably the first ones to say, "Yeah...I bought it and it didn't work for me. It's a scam." ============================ Question - What experience is necessary to make a success of an MLM program? Answer - None. In fact, a lot of the big MLM success stories are "ordinary" people with NO business experience at all. ============================ Question - What percent of the people in your programs make $10,000/mo on a consistent basis? Answer - I don't know. Which programs do you mean? My guess is this: A very small percentage of the people in ANY program make $10,000 a month. The same goes for the buyers of any "How To Make Money" course no matter how good it is. It doesn't matter what the program is. It could be certified by "The Powers That Be" as being the Official Best Program In The World. The head of the BBB could be the founder. So let's assume that you've found that program or course or whatever. The best one in the whole world. Certified and everything. Well, here's the truth: 80% of the people that join/buy will do nothing. Most of that group won't even read the instructions. Of the 20% that's left, 9 tenths of them will "dabble" in making it work. They'll be having fun and making a little money. It's more like a hobby to them. Then you'll have the small handful of people who actually put forth the effort to make it happen. These are the ones that see the big paychecks. And here's what's amazing: There is only a tiny bit of effort that separates the people who make a little bit of money (or none) from the people who really succeed. Listen, the "how to make money" market is very similar to the "how to lose weight and look really great" market. You know, the folks who buy the Total Gym off of TV and similar products like that. TONS of people buy the Total Gym. 80 percent of them might take it out of the box once before putting it under the bed. Of the 20% that's left, most of them might use it once a week or so...whenever they remember to or whatever. Maybe the day after Thanksgiving? Then you'll have the tiny handful of the people left over. These are the ones that use it a whopping 45 minutes every other day. These are the ones who end up looking like the people in the commercial. You know, the people who actually followed the instructions and worked at it. So, let me ask you this? Did the Total Gym fail the 99% of the people that bought it who rarely (if ever) actually used it? Is it a scam? Are the makers of the Total Gym a group of "Exercise Gurus" who plot and scheme to find new ways to extract money out of the poor unsuspecting public? OF COURSE NOT! It's the END USER almost every time. The same thing goes MOST of the time with MLM programs and courses that teach you how to make money. It's us! WE determine if we're going to succeed. If you use the information in the courses (and I mean REALLY use it. I'm not talking about quitting after buying one ad in one ezine or something)then you're almost guaranteed to make it. Yes, it really is that simple. Let's compare getting rich on the Internet or in an MLM program to running six miles a day. Six miles a day seems like it's IMPOSSIBLE, right? Well, it's not. Not even close. It's CHICKEN FEED if you just put forth small, consistent effort over time. I know this from personal experience. I CHAIN SMOKED for 8 years and then one day said "I'm going to get to where I can run 6 miles in a day". I started small. I would run for one minute and walk three minutes. I gradually built up to where I would run a little longer and a little longer. I hit six miles after two months. I couldn't believe it. So what does this have to do with MLM and Internet Marketing? It's the same principle. Just get out there and get started. Stop standing around "reading the books about running". Get out there and do it! Don't waste time worrying about which "running coach" is a scam. Just pick one or two and follow their advice. USE the information. Sure, you might get "out of breath" at first, but if you keep at it, you can run a marathon. ====== Thanks Frank. Your candor is appreciated. I'll be in touch when I have more questions... ============================ Bobbette Madonna, owner/publisher of LOGON Network of Ezines. Using Guerrilla Marketing tactics to educate, inform and investigate the 'Pulse of E-Commerce' and report findings to the readership. Unconventional methods produce exceptional results. No nonsense approach to marketing, promotion, advertising our clients business online and in print. Subscribe at the purple box: http://logonnewzine.com